Much to my disgust I read about Germany proposing Salvia be banned: I'll bet some German Journalist demanded that this harmless medicinal plant be banned as a dangerous addictive hallucinogen. Don't bother with the FACTS: Ban it before research can be conducted into it's medicinal value.
Germany should learn from the States of California and Maine how to treat it citizens. California and Maine admit there is no ongoing public health hazards associated with this plant: no record of emergency room visits, of overdoses, of public addictive behavior - like Salvia addicts mugging old ladies to get a 'fix'. There are considerably more repercussions to arresting gardeners and taxing the remaining taxpayers MORE to house the naughty gardeners for a long time - economic and social repercussions!
Read this Please: http://sagewisdom.org/lettertocsa.pdf
It has come to my attention that there have been a lot of ‘scare tactic’ stories on TV, and radio, and in the newspaper, about the evils and dangers of our kids smoking a hallucinogenic herb. I have seen articles stating that this is the most dangerous drug to come along since marijuana, and those claiming it is addictive. When did German legislators start believing everything they see on television? Television isn’t in it for the truth, television is in it for big ratings.
“Salvia Madness” looks like a tired rerun of “Reefer Madness” to me, and media sensationalism is a poor excuse for making felons out of tens of thousands of Law abiding Germans. I have seen mostly lies and disinformation being publicly spread about this misunderstood plant, and it’s time for the truth to be told about it.
I began researching this interesting and lovely plant over three and a half years ago, and in three years I have come to be considered one of California’s leading researchers into the botany of this unique plant. The truth is, when used by responsible adults in the privacy of their own homes, there is absolutely no harm in this plant.
In fact, this plant shows great potential for producing many NEW medicines, including: painkillers, new treatments for depression, diarrhea, mood disorders, Alzheimer’s disease, and a possible treatment for cocaine addiction. This plant is the world’s most powerful, natural, and safest aphrodisiac. This plant is also very ornamental and is grown by thousands of Germans: as well as being used as a religious sacrament by many.
There are many valid arguments against making Salvia Divinorum a Schedule I substance in Germany:
• Regular gardeners should not be made into felons. Even the state of Tennessee, in their Public Chapter Number 700, provided that “It would not be a criminal offense to possess, plant, cultivate, grow, or harvest Salvia divinorum for aesthetic, landscaping, or decorative purposes. Also, this amendment does not apply to any dosage that is legally obtainable from a retail establishment without a prescription when it is recognized by the FDA as a homeopathic drug.” Likewise, the states of Maine, California, and Georgia do not prohibit gardeners’ from landscaping with this plant.
• This plant has great potential therapeutic value. Recent research has indicated compounds in this plant may be the key to understanding and finally breaking the cycle of cocaine addiction. To attempt to ban the plant, in the name of the war on drugs, that could possibly be the means to ending the need for some of the war on drugs in the first place, would be the height of well meaning ignorance. If you ban further research with these plants, that might be key research in determining how to block the molecular pathways that cause cocaine addiction, you have only made the world a worse place to live in, and HINDERED yourselves in the war on drugs.
• This Plant is Non-Addictive. No one has ever died of an overdose. It is a natural healing sacrament with a long history of being used by spiritual seekers in religious settings. There should not be a law banning adults from choosing to use this plant as a religious sacrament. Just because you do not know anyone who goes to O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal (UDV) does not mean it is not a church. "The Religious Freedom Restoration Act was adopted by Congress to ensure that the government does not interfere with religious practices absent a compelling justification"
• There is a team of Doctors at the University of Iowa, under Dr. Thomas Prisinzano, with funding from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), that are now studying salvinorin A and attempting to develop derivatives that could be useful for treating methamphetamine and cocaine dependence.
• The American Civil Liberties Union, with their Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics, has published a PDF Pamphlet explaining why Salvia Divinorum is not suitable for scheduling. http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/pdf/salvia_dea.pdf
• Germany does not have the millions or billions of extra enforcement funds to throw away by making citizens into criminals.
• Germany does not have the thousands of extra jail cells to put all these proposed new felons in. Germany will need to build new prisons to relieve overcrowding.
• For every German incarcerated for growing plants: Germany loses a taxpayer and must spend more Tax Funds to house and feed them in punishment. You reduce the available income to the government while requiring an increase of funds expenditures at the same time: a Double hit to the German Economy every time an innocent gardener is persecuted for growing harmless plants in this latest "Witch Hunt" ...
• Tell those Nazis not to attempt to legislate their Christian morals onto your pagan lifestyle, and to find more constructive ways to spend public law enforcement funds: Like spending it to catch Rapists and Murderers maybe?
Tell your lawmakers that Germany NEEDS Safer Anesthetics and new treatments for Alzheimer's and depression and that scare stories are about to make you BAN a Cure for Addictions!
I'll get down off my soapbox now but advise you ALL to write your legislative representatives protesting the loss of your liberties one at a time! Speak up about this freedom: let your voices be collectively heard or shut up and let them drown you out with their false fears ...
Grrrrrrrrrrrr I'm so pissed off about this! Does Germany have no due process to prevent religious persecution or other abuse of official power? Is there no reasonable argument to the self destructive economic policy of warring on Germany's own citizens over a HARMLESS Plant?
Carl McCall - Salvia Researcher.
Yep, nothing to do with TV here. Even our thread gathering newspaper articles about the plant is rather empty.
Letters have already been written at least on the open platform abgeordnetenwatch, where members of the Bundestag answer questions. As of now querists have only been pointed to the «kleine Anfrage der Grünen» (small survey of the green party) Amalgam mentioned, where the only information to be found is that there was nothing known about physical, mental or social harm.
When asked about why a law is passed on behalf of the lack of knowledge, the answer referred to the conclusions of the medical committee, which was summoned for this case. Still no evidence has been produced, though it would be mandatory for the german equivalent of your schedule I.
Sorry for my english, this topic clearly exceeds my vocabulary :/
Glass
The problem is that the pharmaceutical industry has more influence on the government (through lobbyists) than the citizens whose rights are restricted.
They don't care about the additional costs because the taxpayers pay them at last...
There is not much doubt that s.d. will be illegal by the next week but it is another thing how the judges will use this. There is a realistic chance that they will recognize the lack off reasons in the illegalization of s.d.. This whole process has happend almost covered from the public eye. I don't think this is an irreversible one. Someday there will be scientifical studies that proof s.d. is a drug with a minimum of risk when used with responsibility and even those blinded politicians will perceive it .. i hope.
Hello Sea Mac,
I think I overly simplified the process of decision making in favor of my own opinion, especially as I need quite a while to look up some terms that don't translate that easily.
The committee consists of medical experts, that advises the Bundestag in medical matters. The pharmacologists, pharmaceutical committee of the german medical fraternity(?), pharmacists, researchers and the German Association of the pharmaceutical Industry are to evaluate in matters which usually exceed the knowledge of the members of the Bundestag and make recommendations. The Committee has to be heard when substances are to be scheduled to prevent arbitraryness and laws based on hearsay. In this case this process obviously failed.
Then we have the Drogenbeautragte, who's job is to prevent drug abuse by clarification, gather statistics and advise the Bundestag in drug matters. The Drogenbeauftragte may have enforced the evaluation of Salvia Divinorum by the committee, but she doesn't seem to know on what basis the recommendations were made and her answers on abgeordnetenwatch.de are ambiguous. Her statements are pretty general, and as the recommendation consists of a lot of changes within the BtMG (Controlled (narcotic) Substances Schedule) the draft is not too easy to read for a layman. Needless to say the draft doesnt elaborate on the facts on which the decisions are based. So we're still in the dark, only theorising about possible clauses that could have been used to effectively outlaw the plant Salvia Divinorum.
The whole process is even more complex then that, created to protect the civilians against the state, involving independent authorities. But the range of experts obviously didn't include members with reasonable knowledge about Salvia. Not even the active substance, Salvinorin A, has been banned, which would be even more complicated. My guess is, that Salvia was rather marginally put into the schedule.
Glass
Hi Sea Mac,
thanks for your sympathies. This Salvia thing is really stupid.
The dangerousness of a Substance ore a Plant must be evidenced based on scientifically proven Facts to make it illegal. Thats right but take a look on the official reasons our Government argues.
Thank you very much for your support. You say:
Thank your for your sympathy.
The prohibition of Salvia Divinorum is just a small piece of repression here in germany. There is the already mentioned "vorratsdatenspeicherung" where every german who uses any kind of telecommunication is an potential criminal for the government and therebye will be monitored. First they explained this law with their beloved "danger of terrorism" and children pornographie. Now it shall be against criminals in general.
There also are politicians who say in public that they would break the constitution if necessary and stay in office!
The citizen becomes more and more subspicious for the government. A few weeks ago there was a chain of more than 200 house searches because this people bought things like lamps and ventilation that are used for mariuhana growing online!
The signs point to an surveillance state...
Well, as soon as I get problems for something like Salvia I'll pay my taxes in another country...
greeting from the oligarchy germany
Thank you - It is a sad state indeed!
All of your "Investigative Journalists" have been jailed or gagged so no one reports publicly about obvious visible corruption in the German Government.
Freedom of Speech is the first to go: once the people's outcries are silenced the government can do as they please!
I have great Sympathy for all of you!
Did they make Salvia Illegal?
So sorry to hear that.
Salvia is illegal but you can import as much Salvinorin A as you like: is that right?
Pardon my rough language: but that is Simply Retarded!
Ideas like religious freedom or freedom of speech or freedom to choose your own opinion have never been in very high esteem here in Europe, in the "old world". That is why many religious minorities have emigrated to the USA throughout its history. Nevertheless, many Germans feel comparatively safe here, as there are many structures and regulations which you can rely on - and although they make life terribly complicated and tend to diminish personal freedom in many cases, they provide a feeling of security for many - especially for those who vote for the big parties that constitute our parliament.
As far as I am concerned, I am glad that there is no such thing as capital punishment in any European state. One thing which would keep me from going to Thailand (as a case in point) would be the danger of being imprisoned and maybe even executed for having a bag of weed in my pocket or something like that. Hearing of such incidents really scares the shit out of me, to be honest...
The narcotics law here, however, is a shame and a disgrace - that's for sure! There might be U.S. states, though, which aren't any better in this respect. But thank God Germany is situated next to Holland... and the languages are very similar to one another - so if everything else fails, some of us might emigrate to Holland, which is well-known for its liberal drug policy, probably even in the U.S.?
Thank you for posting all those links concerning current salvia research. Ironically, Salvia Divinorum was recently banned here - allegedly because "current research suggests that the dangers and addictiveness of it must not be underestimated" (or words to that effect.)
So you see that our government in fact has no real interest in ANY serious research on this plant whatsoever. They just make up their own "research" - no matter if this results in little more than ridiculous fairytales of the "terrible mental and physical effects" of legal salvia divinorum. It's a sad, sad world.
There are powerful interest groups, e.g. multinational pharmaceutical companies, which fear that plants like Salvia Divinorum might contain any substances that could show any potential to compete with any of their current or future products.
These companies have virtually unlimited financial possibilities and a great influence on Governments and so-called "drug-experts" which is a power that should not be underestimated. A possibility of patenting (and making money with) substances found in plants like cannabis and salvia is out of the question, therefore these plants are being supressed and demonized in a most successful way. I am not really surprised that this is happening - I am only surprised that it is not happening in all of the U.S. as well at the same time. Apparently your civil rights movement really does exert some influence on the government. We are constantly struggling to establish something like that here as well, but we are still taking our first baby-steps in this respect. So we really appreciate any support from you and from anyone willing to give it to us.
there is nothing you can do about it, we all know that ethnobotanical plants get banned from our states regularly, you just have to bear it... that these arguments against salvia come from germany is sad, but as long as we know that these plants are more than just "a drug" or "psychedelic substances" we can oppose these bastards who want to control our nature..
sry for my bad english but these words had to be spoken!
I have realised that in germany, the only drugs that become illegal are this ones that dont kill you. Other things like Brugmansia Aurea or Mandragora Officinarum wich are able to kill, are legal and found in many grocery stores and plantshops!
I just wanted to say that there's no connection between the harm a drug can produce and its status in german law(like noispheratu suggested) and that legal plants containing a drug(Brugmansia Aurea) are not allowed for selling them as one(except Tobacco).
Außerdem dachte ich die Umgangssprache sei Englisch in diesem Unterforum...
http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/tipping-point-marijuana-reform
I hope So!
Frankly: it STILL seems very counter-productive to me to ban plants and to jail people over touching banned plants.
There's definitely some kind of change coming up it seems. Anyone read those news saying http://www.n-tv.de/leute/Sean-Penn-wird-Koka-Botschafter-article7617076.html?
What would the US President say if he was asked whether he could http://www.richrath-express.de/shop/images/artikel/57776587.jpg?
Significant difference between English and Spanish vocabulary: http://guyharveysportswear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/356Hungry-Tuna-8x11.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opuntia_ficus-indica!
Might that have started the war on drugs?
To stay out of trouble, always mind the difference! Example:
http://www.fagron.de/
http://www.fraron.de/
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